I woke at 2.30 am . It was Thursday, January 3, 2008. Rosemary was sound asleep. There were no sounds anywhere – except for the rain which came in waves, beating lightly on the side of the unit as if to remind me that I was still alive. I lay there wondering why I was awake. I’d gone to bed after falling asleep in front of the television watching a program that reminded me of Harry Potter but wasn’t. It was just before 10 o’clock. Rosemary bundled me off to bed. She wanted to record a movie called “Hero” which we had both seen before. It was made in China and she loved it. I fell asleep almost immediately, but now, four and a half hours later I was wide awake. Why? What was I supposed to be doing? I got out of bed and walked quietly through the unit without turning on any lights. It was so quiet and the cats were nowhere to be seen. Strange! We’d been unable to buy any kitty litter and had been leaving the garage door open so Levi and Freya could get out to do their bit outside. But when I went into the garage the door was closed.
I walked back though the loungeroom and suddenly there was a very sleepy Freya sitting quietly and looking up at me as if to say: “Hey, what are you doing up at this hour?” I patted her gently and went back to bed. I lay there asking why I had been woken. I closed my eyes and tried to go back to sleep and found myself thinking about the most extraordinary conversation I had ever participated in. It was with an eight year old girl, a very wise eight year old, whose mother had told us of the conversations she had been having with her daughter about where she came from. Intrigued, we asked whether she would be willing to talk with us and this had led to her agreement to talk with Rosemary, myself and her mother in the garden of her home near Murwillumbah on a sunny summer afternoon on March 1st 1997.
I knew then that was why I had been woken and that I had to get out of bed, find the transcribed conversation and type it up. I went back into the loungeroom, found the box containing the interviews, which had recently surfaced, and soon had the transcript in front of me. I read part of the first page and, as always, I felt a sense of awe and I realized that it was time for its release to a wider public.
The conversation that follows has never been shown to anyone since (except the SA’s mother to obtain her permission to release it) but has remained in a box with a pile of interviews we did with other adults and children about their contact with fairies.
However, it is no longer January 8, 2008, but April 28, 2009. More than a year has passed as we waited for the appropriate time to release it. This, apparently, is it.
The three of us asked questions as they came to mind. The people asking questions are designated as follows: The Mother: M; The eight-year old: SA. (Spare Angel) Rosemary: R; Andrew: A.
Note: Sometimes when the Spare Angel refers to her mother, she means her earthly mother who helped to conduct this interview; at other times she means the angel mother she had when she was in the angelic realm.
A: Do you know where you came from before you were here?
A: So where was that?
SA: When you are with the angels there are a couple of levels you have to pass. I came from the second highest level.
M: We don’t know what that means.
SA: There are Spirit levels and Angel levels and other levels.
R: Do you remember what it was like?
SA: No, not really.
A: Did you choose to come down to earth?
A: So you were told to come?
A: Who by?
SA: The boss of the angels.
A: So why do you think you were told to come down?
SA: Because when someone dies an angel is born and they come down. Like my Mummy, when someone died she was born and she came down. But when I was born no-one died. So I was just like a “spare angel”. Then when people started dying and something went wrong with the angel system, the angels that were spare came down.
M: What went wrong with the angel system?
SA: I can’t remember.
M: You mean something going on down here or something going on up there?
SA: Something going on down here.
A: Did you come down to fix anything?
SA: No. I just came down to tell people about angels and past lives and their future, but if I'm going to, I have to tell the boss angel before I'm allowed to do it. Sometimes it can be secret.
A: So do you see your guardian angel around you?
SA: I have a big group of angels.
A: Do you see them?
A: Can you see them now?
A: How many have you got?
The Spare Angel paused and thought for a moment.
R: What do they look like?
SA: If you were going into a big white space, a room that is just white and all you can see is chairs, they’re only very, very small. But if you’re looking at them right in front of you they’re actually quite big and you can see them without squeezing your eyes.
M: So when they’re in Heaven they are in a big white space?
SA: Yes. When they are in their level it’s like a big white room and you can’t see anything except for the chairs and the angels.
R: So when you say, when you see them here they’re big – how big?
SA: About eight or nine feet.
A: Do the guardian angels talk to you much?
SA: When I need help or something, and sometimes they tell me what to say. So if I’m in a situation at school where I don’t know what to say, they say it for me.
A: So you find yourself saying something…
SA: …that I haven’t even brought up in my mind.
M: Can you explain how they give you information about past lives?
SA: When you die you go up to Heaven and you learn a little bit about up there, then when you come down you kinda forget when you’re about eight what it was like up there, and next time you go there they have to tell you again. But with me because I stayed up in Heaven for a while they kinda just taught me all at once, so I don’t forget.
M: So when you’re looking at a person, what do you see? Do you talk to their angel?
SA: No, I talk to their person, but their person is kinda like an angel to me, so I have to tell the angel but I’m actually speaking to the person. The angel is the person, but when I think of the person I don’t reckon he’s an angel.
M: If a person came and asked you something, then you’d talk to their angels?
SA: I talk to their angels individually.
M: How do angels talk back to you?
SA: What happens is it echoes, and when it gets down to my head what’s left is only a little bit of it, so I have to tune in a bit.
M: What sort of things can the angels tell you about them?
SA: The angels can tell me, yes, I should be talking to them or not, and if the angel is good or cheeky or whatever.
M: Can you tell Andrew what number he’s up to?
SA: Yes I could. He’s up to four.
A: What’s that mean?
SA: It’s kinda like you do a box and it has obstacles in it. You have to get over the obstacles and finish that box. Then you go onto another one and it goes all the way up to 10.
A: So does that mean I have four boxes left?
SA: You’re doing the obstacles on Four, and Four is about happiness and your happiness is about you writing books.
A: Does that mean that I have another six boxes to go to get to Ten?
SA: Yes, it doesn’t stop.
R: Do you do one box in one lifetime?
SA: No. Sometimes the boxes can take two years, one week or two days, but it can’t be one day.
R: Do you repeat boxes?
SA: Can I say about my Mum? Well she was drawn up to a black cloud and when she got to that black cloud she couldn’t go into the eighth box, so she had to start again, but before she started again she had to memorise all the happiness things and to clear away the black cloud. Then they gave her two days on each box until she got through them.
R: What number am I up to?
SA: You’re up to the ninth box. It’s about flowers and joy and stuff and experiencing in a group.
M: How long has Rosemary got before she finishes Nine?
SA: She’s only got till Wednesday. [Group laughter.]
R: How long have I been in the Nine, do you know?
SA: You started just before Christmas.
R: Then do I go on to number Ten?
SA: Yes, that’s all about money and success. [Laughter from the adults.]
A: I’ve got a long way to go to get to that. [More laughter.] How long have I been in Four?
SA : That’s a secret. I can’t tell you that one.
R: You can’t tell him how long he’s going to stay in it?
SA: Yes I can. Six more weeks.
R: What’s number Five?
SA: Number Five is about free. You’ll be free. Do I have to go through all the boxes?
R: It’s very interesting. Yes please, if you would.
SA: Number Six is about colour changes. Like if you were going somewhere and you saw a colour wherever you went, say someone had white on. Then next day another person had white on. What would happen is that you would probably see white for about a week and then it would change. You might see red. Seven is about learning and experiencing something. Eight is about communicating and talking about it.
A: What about One, Two, Three?
SA: They’re about learning how to do boxes. Three is about coming into the boxes.
M: You have main boxes too, don’t you?
SA: You’ve already got one Mum, and Rosemary you’ve got two, and you’ve got one Andrew because you’ve already been through the boxes a lot of times. Just because you’re at Four it doesn’t mean it’s the first time you’ve gone through the boxes. It could be 600 times because you do them all through your life.
A: So what’s the one box?
SA: That is number Three.
R: So what are my two boxes?
SA: They’re number Nine and…[pause] number Two.
R: So what’s two about?
SA: It’s about learning about boxes, how to do them and stuff. It’s like God tells you everything so you just have to relax and wait. You could do that by books and stuff.
Complex family relationshipsM: Tell us about angels. Do they come and go and do you have the same one all your life?
SA: No, what happens is your angel could go down to earth and you could get another one. I have an issue with Mummy’s angel. He had to come down to earth. He was my brother and his mother came down, which is my mother. So she’s got my mother. His name is Ivanusha. [In other words, the Spare Angel's mother in this life has, as her angel, the one who was the SA’s mother in the angelic realm.]
M: I had an angel and he got recalled to come to earth. For some reason he’s now born on the planet so they had to give me another one, which is SA’s mother.
SA: [Referring to a book R and A had planned about psychic children] There are some things that people will tell you that sometimes have to be secret, so you have to be careful what you put in the book.
A: How will we know?
SA: Well, you’ll probably get a message not to do it or if you write it down a drink could spill on it.
A: Tell me about fairies…do you see them?
A: And how long have you been doing that?
SA: Since I was born on earth. When I was a little girl I saw a blue boy sitting in a tree. He had wings. That’s when I started seeing fairies.
A: What are the fairies like that you see?
SA: Some are very small and sometimes they can have butterfly wings and they are pretty colours. Sometimes I can see them [with physical eyes] but that’s a rare occasion. They are just like a little light.
A: Do you see them physically or do you see them in your head?
SA: I see them around earth, but mostly when you see them on earth you would see a light in the shape of a fairy. It’s very rare that people on earth see their actual bodies.
A: Why is that?
SA: Because they don’t really want to be seen, just like the tooth fairy. [She smiled.] But I know who the tooth fairy is. [Laughter.]
A: What do the fairies do?
SA: They help you physically on earth.
A: So what about flowers and plants, do they help them grow?
A: I’ve got a fairy called Jorell. Can you see Jorell now?
A: On my left shoulder?
A: So where is she?
The Spare Angel paused for a few seconds.
SA: She’s with Ivanusha.
R: What’s she like?
SA: She’s very pink…and she has golden white wings and she can change colours.
A: Have I got an angel as well?
SA: You haven’t got a small angel. All you’ve got is a big angel. She’s a little bigger than the other angels I see.
A: How many angels have I got?
A: Is that all?
A: Have I got other guardians as well?
SA: Yes, but your guardians are fairies, not angels. [Astonished laughter.]
A: So what’s the name of my guardian angel?
SA: [Pause.] Lena.
M: Can you say what colours Andrew’s angel is?
SA: He’s hiding something so I can’t see his heart but I know he’s got red blood, and the colour he has at the moment is red and gold.
A: But you said it was a she…Lena. Now you’re saying he.
SA: They can change…like my mother!
M: Does the colour mean anything?
SA: Black means he’s hiding his heart, which means he’s hiding something.
M: Why would he do that?
SA: Well, his angel is kinda like him.
M: Is there anything Andrew can do about that?
SA: It’s kinda like a test.
A: So is writing books my obstacle too?
M: Can you see him getting through this obstacle?
SA: Yes he will and his reward for doing it is that they will probably publish it. [This happened in 2006.]
R: What about my angel?
SA: He’s gold and silver because you’re doing a happy level; you’re expressing all your feelings.
R: What colour blood?
SA: He’s got very royal black.
R: Is there a name for this angel?
SA: [Pause.] Gissimon.
A: Do you talk to other children about what you see?
A: Are you able to help other children if you see something going on?
A: How do you do that?
SA: I talk to their angel and the angel goes “POW” and it’s better.
A: If two children are fighting can you stop it?
SA: No, I can’t. I was in a fight once but I couldn’t stop it.
R: What situations do you help?
SA: I help people if something goes wrong with their parents or if they’ve got a sore or something and it’s really really hurting.
A: So do you put your hands on or do you just talk to the angels?
SA: I talk to the angels and they do it. I helped a girl once who was new to the school. She tripped over the root of a tree and got a very big scrape on her leg. I talked to the angels and they made it better.
M: Are there angels who won’t help?
SA: No, because they are there to guard you.
A: When we die, what happens?
SA: You go back to being an angel and you learn a little bit about angel stuff and you go back out.
A: You can’t stay up there if you want to?
A: Oh. [Disappointed.]
M: Why can’t you stay up there?
SA: They could need you…
M: So why did you get to stay up there longer?
SA: Nothing happened down on earth while I was up there and I was born when no-one died.
M: We don’t understand.
SA: I was made when no-one needed me, so I became Gemma’s guardian angel and I helped her go through life.
R: How old was she when she died?
SA: She was only a little girl.
R: So when she died you came down?
M: So what you are talking about is the fact that no-one died, [to A and R] not like a karmic position, there was no genetic hole for her to fill. She just chose to come down. So [to SA] explain what normally happens for us!
SA: Well, you’re made. My grandmother was made when her sister died, so she had to come down and take her place. If you’ve got to come down to earth you become a guardian angel.
R: If you want to learn about angels, you have to stay up there with them, right?
SA: Yes, but you don’t really have a choice. When you’re up in Heaven you get your physical name and you get your…..[Tape unintelligible.]
A. Are you able to see people from other planets?
SA: I can but I don’t really like to.
A: How do you see the relationship between people on earth and people from other planets?
SA: We’re on different levels. I can see every level.
R: For people on earth, are we always angels when we die or do we go to other levels?
SA: You're always angels.
A: So we can’t go to another level and go to another planet?
SA: No, unless you’re really, really special. The first level was where there was the Queen of the Angels. She was very, very special and she was on a different planet. She came down to earth and when she died she didn’t go back up to Heaven but to one of the other planets because she was very special.
R: So are all the other beings on the other planets angels too, when they are not in the physical?
SA: Yes, they kinda change. They're kinda like the other people on the planet, or they become a plant.
A: Have you ever seen anyone from another planet?
SA: Ummm, not on earth I haven't.
A: But you have been been there?
M: What was that like?
SA: I can’t tell you that.
M: Do you ever see space ships here?
SA: Yes; sometimes they can be invisible.
M: Can you talk to them?
SA: Space ships? Yes. Can I go out and play?
SA, still very much the little girl, went outside to play with her sister while we enjoyed a cuppa. She came back about 15 minutes later and we continued from where we left off.
A: How do you talk to them [space ships] – in words or pictures?
SA: I can talk to them. It's just like I am talking to an angel, I speak to them and I just say...umm...this little girl named...Ro...I think I want her to be happy.
M: And they make the girl happy?
R: Those people can do that too?
SA: Yes. But they can only mend feelings.
R: Oh, I see. They can't fix wounds or anything?
LevelsM: You said you were a second level angel...
SA: You are born on the first level and if you're a guardian angel you go to the second level, otherwise you go straight down [to earth].
R: So what is an angel exactly?
SA: A person who goes to spirit. A spirit is one thing, an angel is another and the heart is another.
R: How do they work in together?
SA: The angel is what makes the spirit work and the spirit makes the heart work.
R: When the angels tell you stuff that you have been telling us, how do they tell you, do they give you pictures or words?
SA: Words into my head.
M: So when you die, what are you going to do then?
SA: When I die I go back to Heaven and they'll say I can go back to earth. I can't have a choice, as that will be my first death.
M: So you haven't been here before?
[She nods her head as if to say, “That’s right.”]
SA: I've been guarding a little girl while you've been having your past lives.
M: So you don't have any past lives?
SA: No, this is my first.
R: So did the little girl go through lots of past lives while you were guarding her?
SA: She went through...two.
M: So how can you guard and guide if you haven't lived here before?
SA: That's part of the stuff you learn when you're an angel, which you kinda forget when you're eight years old.
A: So are you going to forget?
SA: Me...no, because I chose to come down so I don't need to forget. And Ivanusha won't forget either.
M: He's born down here now, so he's the same as you?
SA: He probably won't tell most people about his life.
M: What will he be doing?
SA: He's here to guard people.
R: Do you know how old he is now?
SA: Yes, he's still in the hospital as a baby.
M: So have you met any other children who are guardian angels?
SA: Ian is one. [A friend of SA.]
M: And the other kids are just doing life after life like the rest of us, are they?
SA: If you're chosen to be a guardian angel, then you have to be a guardian angel. I like being a guardian angel but I like being down on earth too.
The Life of an Angel
M: So what's life like in guardian angel land?
SA: You don't eat.
M: What did you do all day?
M: You watch everyone down here?
M asked about her other two children, whether they were guardian angels.
SA: No, they were born like you.
M: They're doing life and death stuff are they?
M: So how do you get to be a guardian angel?
SA: You're born at the right time. I got born when no-one died and I was waiting to be a guardian angel.
A: What do you mean you got born?
SA: An angel is made.
A: By who?
SA: By angels.
M: When you say born, do you mean made?
A: So how do they do that?
SA: It's like abracadabra and you're there.
[We all shrieked with laughter.]
M: So do you know any more about it than that?
SA: I know more but I can't tell you.
SA: It's a secret and if I tell you it won't be a secret any more.
Seven months after this interview this wise young lady told her mother she didn't want to be bothered with the angels any more. She was incredibly bored with them. She changed "almost overnight" her mother said. Suddenly her room became tidy and she was much easier to handle. Her mother said she thinks one of the reasons for this was that her daughter had acquired a boyfriend. She was then nine years old.
But eleven years later we sent the interview to her mother, asking how she would feel if we published it with the identity of her daughter concealed behind "The Spare Angel". When told about it and shown the interview, her daughter's reaction was one of astonishment that she had ever had these thoughts. They both agreed to our request. However it seems the timing wasn't quite right yet, as we delayed putting it out there for a few more years. Funny how all sorts of things seemed to get in the way! Now, finally, here it is.